|
Post by BlackWolf on Nov 9, 2005 9:37:51 GMT -5
What are some of your opinions on drafting? Spew may have a good opinion about this since we all are underaged except him, lol.
I am completely against it, to have people fighting a war that they dont want to fight simply causes problems in the military. Plus I think it is cruel to that particular person.
The only exception would be in the event of defending home soil. This scenario would be unlikely since any country that would attempt an invasion of the USA would end up turning into a nuclear war I think. But in the event that this isnt the outcome, then a draft should be required to protect home soil. If you are against protecting your own country, then you shouldnt live here in my opinion, lol.
Wars like the Iraq war are too debatable, so I wouldnt support a war with a country such as that.
|
|
|
Post by SpewMuffin on Nov 9, 2005 12:52:52 GMT -5
My opinion? Well, instituting a draft would actually make the army stronger in most cases because the current soldiers are usually of a lower class who wants to get some experience in the world because they either a) got "forced" by their parents whether his/her dad is ex-military, etc... or b) wants to get some money to go to college (via the GI Bill created in the late 40s).
In many countries around the world, serving is compulsory, like my cousin in Taiwan. During his service, he picked up drinking and smoking, a negative side effect that many recruits probably end up doing. Attending college fresh out of high school only meant delaying service until after college graduation there.
However, you have to consider that when you're in the service, you just obey whatever order is handed to you. That's a bit scary sometimes, particularly when human rights and ethics may be involved (getting to the point of Abu Grabe anyone?). Most of the time in military courts, only a few stand accused even though many may have participated because of the chain of command's responsibilities lies on the one giving the order rather than the one performing the deed. <sighs>
I'm starting to go in a tangent, aren't I? To recap, I am fairly neutral in terms of a draft. I see both positive and negative sides to it.
-- SpewMuffin
|
|
|
Post by natedaving on Nov 9, 2005 13:49:57 GMT -5
im with wolf i hate it
the people who wan to fight can go sign up don't force people to fight if u don't want to
|
|
|
Post by David on Nov 9, 2005 20:04:24 GMT -5
same i am agianst it, it could completely ruin someones future. its liek me who is studying to b a doctor, i get my diploma ready 4 college and medical school then all of a sudden i get pulled into something that i definetaly did not want to do and end up losing all my future and i could possibly die in for something that i didnt want to be dragged into. yeah some people may say we should fight for our freedom, so i say to them then y dont u get the heck out there and fight it. I am here to help u guys recover. lol thats my opinion
|
|
|
Post by BlackWolf on Nov 9, 2005 21:01:26 GMT -5
I'm starting to go in a tangent, aren't I? To recap, I am fairly neutral in terms of a draft. I see both positive and negative sides to it. -- SpewMuffin lol, whenever something comes to a neutral opinion with me, I pick whatever gives the most freedom to people. I think that a draft in Vietnam wasnt something that shouldve been done. Never put the lives of the American people ahead when you dont even have the political guts and authority to actually do something. I think that is a war we could have won, but with presidents changing and diplomacy and all that jazz, it makes it kinda hard to do anything effective.
|
|
|
Post by Mystikal_Pooka on Nov 10, 2005 11:27:34 GMT -5
same i am agianst it, it could completely ruin someones future. its liek me who is studying to b a doctor, i get my diploma ready 4 college and medical school then all of a sudden i get pulled into something that i definetaly did not want to do and end up losing all my future and i could possibly die in for something that i didnt want to be dragged into. yeah some people may say we should fight for our freedom, so i say to them then y dont u get the heck out there and fight it. I am here to help u guys recover. lol thats my opinion Well, if you had a medical degree you would probably be drafted as a medic, and that wouldn't be too bad would it? just a few more bullets whizzing around you. lol as for the question, I am against it unless it is absolutley necessary, such as defending our country from invaders. Even then, it would have t be quite a formidable army to take on the full US army on their own turf, so we might not even need one then.
|
|
|
Post by David on Nov 11, 2005 19:33:42 GMT -5
have u played the game freedom fighters, now if it was something like that then yes i would
|
|
|
Post by BlackWolf on Nov 12, 2005 12:13:24 GMT -5
lmao! I have, their voices are annoying.
*Russian accent* "Hey, hes gettin away!"
"Ooooo, thats waass cloose!"
|
|
|
Post by Mystikal_Pooka on Nov 12, 2005 15:49:00 GMT -5
lol ya the voices are annoying, but of course real life is not going to be anything like a game. you are going to be scared shitless even if it was like that game. for one thing you don't respawn in real life.... so that might be an incentive to not die... and real bullets are scarier than game bullets lol
|
|
|
Post by David on Nov 13, 2005 0:03:50 GMT -5
no i would go grap a shottie and a 50 cal. and pull a rambo slash scarface move on all those suckas.
|
|
|
Post by BlackWolf on Nov 13, 2005 0:56:36 GMT -5
lol, does this mean I get to me James Bond? That would be so cool! I want to be Sean Connery!
|
|
|
Post by David on Nov 15, 2005 22:51:04 GMT -5
lol i dont know y but i like peirce brosnan better for the role.
|
|
|
Post by Guest on Nov 22, 2005 19:02:40 GMT -5
You gues make me sick you know that? I serve this country to protect a bunch of ungratefull pukes like you so you can go to college and what not. Spew you need to brush up on your history man. During the Civil War they were drafting poeple. They drafted Irish, Italian straight off the boats.
All you guys who say you're against the draft need to wake up. If it weren't for the blood of those who were drafted where would you be now? A communist perhaps? Those who weren't fit to join the millitary have only one option most of the time to join, the draft. Take guys who made mistakes in thier pasts and did some jail time. A felony can keep you from being accepted by the millitary.
Any of you guys have a problem you can come to Ft. Benning, Ga. adn look up 1st Sgt. Jason Rainard. I'll be glad to put you straight on track again. And in case you're wondering. 1st. Sgt. Jason Rainard is noe other than your own {XWSF}Gen. EvilBeast.
|
|
|
Post by natedaving on Nov 22, 2005 19:16:00 GMT -5
hey beast im sorry i just don't think it is fully a news issues so lets just drop it
|
|
|
Post by natedaving on Nov 22, 2005 20:18:31 GMT -5
and i support r troops so
i just think drafting should be for ppl who want to join and sohouldn't be forced to join
|
|
|
Post by Guest on Nov 23, 2005 0:11:33 GMT -5
Well tough big guy. If it were left up to me, all young men would serve 2-5 years automatic upon thier 18th birthday or thier graduation from High School. Whichever came first. The draft was set up to make lil pansies like I'm seeing here fight for thier country. It may be here it may be elsewhere. But you have no choice in the matter. On your 18th birthday you better go sign that little card at the post office. If you don't guess what? YOU WILL GO TO JAIL! It's a federal offense to not sign up for the selective service. Seems to me a bunch of children these days only believe what they see in movies. You all seem like a bunch of children trying to act like and adult. You're the future of this country? Kill me now. None of you have the slightest notion what being an American is all about. None of might even know what Our Flag means and what the sympolic meaning of it is. Now you can either be smart or a smartass. It's up to you. Big D knows how to reach me. When you learn to be an adult like you're supposed to be becomming, Have him let me know and I'll see if you are. Spew, you said in another topic that you're a grad student? I'll be the first to tell you this. DON"T EVER JOIN MY U.S. ARMY BUDDY!! College boys gone to the millitary right out of college get commands of war zone troops. 90% of the "Training Accidents" involving Officers are no accident. [glow=red,2,300][/glow]
|
|
|
Post by BlackWolf on Nov 23, 2005 3:15:07 GMT -5
ummm....how do I say this, please try to show a little bit of respect to those that actually signed up. Second, I read alot of plain flaming other people, not really presenting facts to support anything. We never said anything about not signing up for selective service, it is whether or not a draft is moral and should be supported. I have plenty of facts/speculation that I can actually present that challenges that previous post, especially since there wasnt alot there for me to challenge. But I wont worry about it since you didnt sign up, I dot expect you to return. However I will say this, you mentioned that we are trying to act like adults? Might I mention that spew is one? Also, I have heard this mentality before, and I will say it again. In order to become "American", are you suggesting that we have to fold over immediately and agree with you on everything? Is disagreeing with you un-American? Or is it that we are discussing a topic regarding this? Should we be left in ignorance? Or perhaps we wait until 18 because that makes your brains magically change? Oh, and one more thing, I like most of the movies out there are the worst source to acquire any information whatsoever. Lemme see, "The Day After Tommarrow", movie about how liberals are right about global warming. "Runaway Jury", liberals are right about gun control, and all proponets are evil. "Farenheit 911", dont get me started on that. Any serious right wing biased movies in Hollywood? I think not.
|
|
|
Post by Kitty on Nov 23, 2005 5:34:37 GMT -5
because the current soldiers are usually of a lower class Oh I know your friend Paul isn't calling Delta or Beast "low class" because he was a soldier?? It takes someone with no class to call someone low class. BTW Paul...this is my FIRST and LAST visit to your forum. Thank you very much. Your treatment of Beast was wrong, but I bet you'll never be man enough to admit it. You get to post your opinions here (excuse me it's not opinions cuz as you say it...it's "facts") and Beast is entitled to his. You don't like it, then you shouldn't have posted it on our forum because you KNEW this would start stuff. Just can't resist proving just how smart you think you are, can you?? BTW Spew...I do hope you there is a draft and you are the first to go, cuz I'd love to hear you call a soldier low class to his face. I foresee a "training accident"! HAHAHA Shannon
|
|
|
Post by BlackWolf on Nov 23, 2005 12:43:08 GMT -5
None of might even know what Our Flag means and what the sympolic meaning of it is Now you can either be smart or a smartass. It's up to you. Big D knows how to reach me. When you learn to be an adult like you're supposed to be becomming, Have him let me know and I'll see if you are. Spew, you said in another topic that you're a grad student? I'll be the first to tell you this. DON"T EVER JOIN MY U.S. ARMY BUDDY!! [glow=red,2,300][/glow] hmmm....first off, that is called flaming. That isnt really presenting information or opinion, that is just being insulting to other people. It isnt a matter of me liking it or not, that is not my perogative. But if someone cannot handle the content in this forum and treat other members with decent amounts of respect, then I would rather anyone not post here. Insulting a bunch of kids must be adult-like, yes? Second, I think the definition of "low-class" here would be that most people in the military arent making 100 grand a year for their jobs at home. Ya kinda took that out of context. Second, spew is a quite a bit farther to the left wing then I am, (sorry if I am wrong with that assumption spew) and thus we dont agree on alot of things. How come we can have civil discussions without this? Is it because he has "Peter Pan's" syndrome?
|
|
|
Post by natedaving on Nov 23, 2005 15:35:23 GMT -5
hey beast i would love to change my saying
from all this i wouldn't mine joining the army i myself will only join if i can get the postion in the mechanics casue im a motorhead i would love to join as long as i don't have to battle much
|
|
|
Post by BlackWolf on Nov 23, 2005 19:00:41 GMT -5
it doesnt always work out that way. They wont let you have 1000 mechanics for every foot soldier. Unfortunately, a draft wont let you have you way with everything. Hence the topic and controversy is created.
|
|
|
Post by ME on Nov 23, 2005 21:20:11 GMT -5
You say so ppl can learn about the draft? Let me clue you in on something Wolf. The Draft is the greatest thing this countries govnt has done. It's to make Americans who think they're too good to fight for thier country fight. You say you're against it?
And as for spew. Out of context or not, he insulted every military man and woman who has served or given thier lives so he can be a lil asshole. Since he's so damn adament about it. I tell you what. He can come here to Indy and have a chat with me face to face. He thinks he's better than a military man? I'll prove him DEAD wrong. Take it as you wish.
As far as Beast is concerned. You like to sit around on your fat ass all day and mess with your online life right? If it weren't for guys like him, me, Torcyr, FrogMan, and a lto of the MoW guys, You wouldn't be doing it now. So you better rethink your view on defending freedom. Freedom doesn't stop at our borders Wolf. As on of the Strongest, if not the strongest super power of this world, it is our responsibility and duty to defend Freedom. If you have a problem with going down and signing your name on that dotted line then I hope they do resart the draft. Maybe some of you kids these days would have a moor educated view on what it stands for.
|
|
|
Post by BlackWolf on Nov 23, 2005 21:34:12 GMT -5
I am not suggesting anyone should break the law and not sign up when you are 18. Doing that and supporting a draft are two different things. But see? You can have a decent disscussion without getting all grawr...ish. Did you sense any hostility in any of my posts? I never used the words thick ass skull to anyone. but I am getting the impression that you are changing your mind slightly, because Blackop made a really good post and didnt flame anyone. For that I have a high degree of respect for him.
Beast called everyone a dumbass. You infered that everyone sits on their "fat ass" all day. You do not know if this is the case or not.
Blackop, however, explained why he felt the way he did and supported it with links. He did not insult anyone for their views. He showed me and my other members a high degree of respect, and even though he disagrees with so many things Bush has done, he still respects the president.
Do you see where the conflict is? It is my right to make a forum, it may have been a mistake to advertise here. But people like Blackop would take the time to read things and question and talk about it civily.
And spew respects soldiers. He didnt say that soldiers are deadbeats like I think you guys think he did. When he says low class, he is says that most of the military arent leaving 100 grand a year jobs at home.
Low class = maybe less then 40 grand a year.
|
|
|
Post by ME AGAIN on Nov 23, 2005 21:34:22 GMT -5
oh that was by delta and this is someone unknow
|
|
|
Post by BlackWolf on Nov 23, 2005 21:36:17 GMT -5
Hallo there Nate. Ya kinda made it obvious with the "ME" bit.
|
|
|
Post by ME on Nov 23, 2005 21:46:45 GMT -5
no its nates friend he should me all this stuff and he has me using his computer at the time casue he is reparing mine
|
|
|
Post by BlackWolf on Nov 23, 2005 22:21:29 GMT -5
then how might I ask are you using his computer if I put his IP on ban? How many computers does Nate have? And why would you be getting involved in this matter?
|
|
|
Post by ME on Nov 24, 2005 9:31:45 GMT -5
well i myself is very senstive as well
and nate has asked me to get into casue i myself will and might be going to the army
|
|
|
Post by XWSFBlackOp on Nov 25, 2005 0:17:00 GMT -5
Drafting. This seems to be a political quagmire these days. Do I support drafting? The short, easy answer is yes I do. Drafting is absolutly necessary to bolster military forces. Thanks to BJB(thats Blow Job Bill for the uninitiated) the American military force was decimated. IF we were at full battle ready strength, then there would be no need for a draft. But the reality of it is that the draft is a way for the US military to get bodies quickly. I am not going to go into the debate about Vietnam in this thread (might be a good topic elsewhere) but if the draft was not initiated our military forces would have been nil after the conflict. When you have men out in the field taking fire, facing certain death, those men need reinforcements no matter if the men that are reinforcing the position are volunteers or draftees. And once you run out of the volunteers, who is left? Lets face it, war is not pretty. Most of the troops in past wars have been cannon fodder. Whether it be Napoleons troops, Caesars Legions, the Civil War troops, troops from WW1 and WW2, and Vietnam. To name the few that come to mind. I personally agree that to have a full standing armed forces we should take the conscript system. Whereas every male from ages 18-21 should have mandatory service. If you don't want mandatory service simply give up our citizenship. Lets face it, it is not a right that you have to be a citizen of the USA, it is a privlige. As such, you have a choice, defend this country and back it's leaders(right or wrong), or give up your citizenship and live elsewhere. So I believe it is simply a matter of until this country finds a way to have a armed forces that is at near to full capacity 100% of the time we must have a draft. It is not a question of should we be at war with this country or that country. That is a decision your elected leaders make. The leaders you put into office by your vote. As I stated before I may not agree with the person sitting in the seat I will defend the position with my life. As should every American wishing to keep the right to elect his or her governing officials, because once we start not backing our leader, either because we didnt vote for him or because we dont agree with his politics, we are then not backing our country. When that happens we can either sit on our hands and do nothing, fight for our country, or leave. As it was once said " Once one loses the will to fight, someone with it will come in and take them over". Youre going to learn that in life there are a lot of things you are not going to like to do. But you dont have to like it you just have to do it. That is what will give you an edge over others without thw Warrior spirit. You may not like doing pushups or running miles at a time, or crawling through lord knows what into hostile territory with little chance for survival, but you dont have to like it you just have to do it. Or giving presentations in front of board members, firing your best friend because they dont do the job, walking to work because you car broke down in the middle of a blizzard, you just have to do it. Or getting drafted to go fight a war in a country that you never heard of because another country pulled its troops out because of public pressure. You just have to do it. In my eutopia, we would be a country with an armed forces of conscripts and volunteers who are proud to be serving the country that promotes freedom to the world. I've made a long drawn out statement here but I will make my closing brief. You do not have to be drafted, you can give up our citizenship. You cant say I am a proud American, proud of my country, proud to live here if you are not willing to back its plays. If you are not willing to back your country's plays then you need to find another country whose plays you like better. All of this is my opinion with some facts thrown in, if you want numbers or statistics for them I can look them up later. Thanks for our time
|
|
|
Post by XWSFBlackOp on Nov 25, 2005 0:21:05 GMT -5
I keep saying "our citizenship", that should read "your citizenship"...."Y" key wasnt working for some reason. My apologies
|
|